They touched down in Tel Aviv overnight. A short flight by helicopter from Egypt following the Hamas handover, a cup of tea, a brief farewell to their heavily armed captors in those green headbands. [00:00:15] >> It's okay, let's go. >> Speaker 1: Beliing the terrifying ordeal they've been through. Yocheved Lifshitz and Nurit Cooper, out of the hands of Hamas into the arms of the Red Cross at the Egyptian border. >> Speaker 2: 85 year old Yocheved Lifshitz was kidnapped by Hamas [00:00:33] terrorists on October 7th. And luckily, she, along with her friend, who she lived with in a Kibbutz, were released just yesterday. Now, she is the first hostage who has spoken to the press about what she experienced. [00:00:48] And that handshake that you see in the video right next to me has led to a lot of controversy, some frustration, and backlash from the Israeli government, because why would you do that? Why would you shake hands with Hamas, considering what Hamas had carried out in Israel? [00:01:03] And I was actually really curious about it as well. Now, luckily, she did speak to the press. We do have some of her statements. First, let's talk about what she said about the kidnapping itself and how she was treated by Hamas. Hamas released her and her neighbor and friend, Nurit Cooper, [00:01:20] who's 79 years old, on Monday. And later, they were reunited with family members who rushed to their bedside at a hospital in Tel Aviv. Now, the kidnapping itself was incredibly brutal, based on what she has shared with the public. Militants snatched her from her home in the Kibbutz of Nir Oz and [00:01:37] drove her away on a motorbike toward Gaza, a painful act during which she said she was beaten and sustained bruises. Now, she also said she was forced to walk on wet ground and descended into an underground tunnel system she likened to a spider web, [00:01:55] where she was greeted by people who told us. We believe in the Quran and promised not to harm her and her fellow hostages. And here she is describing more of what she experienced. >> Speaker 1: I went through hell, Lifshitz said at a press conference. [00:02:10] She describes how she was kidnapped on a motorcycle. She says she was taken inside a miles long spider web like tunnel system in Gaza. They treated us gently, and they met all our needs, she said. They seemed ready for this. [00:02:26] They prepared it for a long time. She said her husband was separated from her. He is still believed to be held by Hamas, along with at least 220 more hostages. >> Speaker 2: Now, I do think that the fact that her 83 year old husband is [00:02:44] still held captive by Hamas is an important detail to remember as I continue on with this story. Because she did say some positive things about how she was treated by Hamas as well. Each of the five hostages in her group received their own doctor, and there was a paramedic present who supervised medication, she said. [00:03:03] When she was asked why she decided to shake the hand of a Hamas militant. She said, quote, they were very generous to us, very kind. They kept us clean. They took care of every detail. There are a lot of women, and they know about feminine hygiene, and [00:03:20] they took care of everything there later. She also had some negative things to say about the Israeli government and the fact that they didn't have the intel to foil this plot by Hamas in the first place. I'll get to that in a moment. But she also said, they really took care of the sanitary side of things so [00:03:40] that we don't get sick. Now, look, her husband is still held captive by Hamas. So I don't know if that is playing a role in what she is saying about them or if she's 100% honest about the way that they treated her. [00:03:56] What I do know is Hamas is not the good guys here. I know that there are some people who try to make it seem as such, on the left, on the far left. No, what they did to innocent Israeli civilians was brutal. It was disgusting. I can't get the image of the Israeli woman who know her entire backside is [00:04:15] just covered in blood because she had just been assaulted, okay? I can't get those images out of my mind, so please do not try to provide cover for Hamas in any way, shape, or form. Now, look, the other thing is, Hamas wants propaganda that favors them. So maybe treating some of these hostages well will help to, [00:04:33] I don't know, launder their image a little bit. I don't know, but I just don't believe that Hamas is like, a group of good guys who are, like, treating people well. >> Speaker 3: Look, I don't want to have absurd conversations. Of course Hamas is not good guys, and just because you treat a hostage gently doesn't make you a good guy. [00:04:50] You took the hostage in the first place, and you beat the 85 year old as you were capturing her and kidnapping her in the first place. So I don't want those hostages criticized in any way, shape, or form. >> Speaker 2: Agreed? >> Speaker 3: They live through hell. So when I saw the handshake, I thought it was actually perfectly normal, [00:05:07] I'll tell you why. Because there's a thing called Stockholm syndrome. And so when you're captured by someone and they treat you even a little decently, you begin to empathize with them, because you're a human being, and we're social animals. And that's how humans interact, especially in a traumatic situation like that, [00:05:24] where you're looking for a lifeline, right? So it's a common psychological phenomenon that we're aware of. So don't criticize that poor woman whose husband is still being kept by Hamas, who's beaten and then taken as hostage. [00:05:39] That's crazy to criticize her. It's also crazy to think that just because you treat hostages gently that that in any way mitigates anything else you've ever done, right? >> Speaker 2: She and her husband were also, based on what I've read about them, [00:05:54] they sound like incredible and wonderful people. They believe in doing humanitarian work on behalf of Palestinian civilians. They would help Palestinians get to the hospital, that was some of the work that they did. So when she says shalom to the Hamas militant as she shakes his hand, I mean, [00:06:13] this is a woman who genuinely does believe in peace, and I really do commend her for that. I commend her for her strength and her willingness to speak out. >> Speaker 3: So why do we always speak out against violence? Well, obviously on all sides, obviously for moral reasons, right? [00:06:28] But there's an extra layer to it, which is that violence is always irrational. So I remember that the Greek population was super mad at the neoliberal policies that were being instituted and was kind of crushing the local population. [00:06:43] The bankers had screwed up, and they were taking it out on the local Greeks. And there was a violent situation at a bank, and they killed someone. You know who they killed? A poor bank teller. They didn't kill the bank executive. They didn't kill the guy who made the decision, who wasn't even in the building, they killed a random poor civilian, right? [00:06:59] Violence is never the answer. So in this situation, who did Hamas kill? They killed a whole bunch of people who were actually super sympathetic to Palestinians, okay? And then here, it doesn't look like it was a hate crime at least the police are not clear about it yet. But in Michigan, a female rabbi stabbed to death, [00:07:17] worked with Muslims and Jews and brought people together. That might have been a random killing in that case, I don't know. >> Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, I've been following that story because I've been very curious to see what the authorities find. So far the authorities say that there's no evidence to indicate that it was a hate [00:07:33] inspired murder. >> Speaker 3: Yeah, I got you. But overall, on top of being immoral, it's almost always irrational to do the violence. You don't know who you're killing, right? Well, first of all, ten out of ten times you're killing an innocent person, and then half the time, you're killing someone that would have been on your side. [00:07:51] It's so counterproductive, so wrong. So it's good to get their voice here and don't criticize them for anything they're saying. Let's say that she's 100% right, which I believe her, that in that brief window, [00:08:07] those captors were not extra brutal, but helped with her hygiene, right. It doesn't mitigate what they did 1% anyway. So what do you want her to do, lie about it? That's absurd. >> Speaker 2: And remember, Hamas took hostages as a bargaining chip, right? [00:08:25] So what good is your bargaining chip if you treat them so brutally that they die in your custody? >> Speaker 3: 100%. And it is like, again, it's common in the kidnapping world. It's absurd, but the stories that I have read, the articles that I've read [00:08:40] throughout my life is that once you have the hostage, you treat them well, because at that point, it's a super crass way of putting it. But the goods that you have, the property, the leverage. >> It's the leverage you have. >> The power that you have. >> Speaker 2: That's exactly right. >> Speaker 3: So if you ruin that or you're cruel to them, [00:08:57] the minute they're having a conversation as proof of life, for example. They're gonna say, they're treating me terribly, then people are going to get even more angry, and you're less likely to get the thing that you're looking for in return for those hostages. So, again, no credit for [00:09:12] handling this like a normal hostage situation when you took the hostage. >> Speaker 2: Exactly, totally. >> Right, I have one other piece of context. >> Speaker 2: Yeah, so before you get to that, Cenk, I just wanted to share her thoughts on the Israeli government and its military, because she had some critique, to say the least. [00:09:30] She said the following. She also accused the Israel Defense Forces, IDF and Shin Bet intelligence service of not taking threats from Hamas seriously and said. The costly Gaza border fence erected by Israel had done nothing to protect her community from Hamas's attack. [00:09:48] The lack of awareness by Shin Bet and the IDF hurt us a lot. They warned us three weeks beforehand. They burned fields, they set fire balloons, and the IDF did not treat it seriously. >> Speaker 3: Wow. >> Speaker 2: Now, she's not the only one who's making those allegations. [00:10:06] Just as the Hamas terror attacks had occurred, the Egyptian government came out and claimed that. The Israeli government had ignored some of the warnings and intel indicating that Hamas was planning something big. So, look, I'm obviously not an expert. [00:10:22] I'm not privy to what kind of intelligence was shared with the Israeli government, but I've now seen this reported multiple times, and it does make one wonder. And by the way, that's part of the reason why the people of Israel, right. The civilians of Israel are not in any way giving kudos to [00:10:37] Benjamin Netanyahu because he failed to keep them safe. >> Speaker 3: Yeah, so last thing is, according to reports, they actually had negotiated for releasing 50 hostages and in return for humanitarian aid. [00:10:56] And remember, Israel is only allowing 4% of the normal amount of goods that go into Gaza at this point for their humanitarian aid. But the deal fell apart when Israel said, no, no fuel. But they're gonna have to give them fuel at some time, otherwise all of [00:11:12] the hospitals will run out of power and everyone in the hospitals will die. I don't know if Netanyahu wants that to happen, but they're gonna have to give in on fuel. What? Let's say that that happens, and now you've slaughtered thousands of people in [00:11:28] hospitals, then you're still not gonna give them fuel. No, you're gonna give them fuel at some point, and you're not giving it to them. You're just allowing it to come in, so why not get the other 48? What a terrible deal by Netanyahu. [00:11:44] What an idiotic move if the reports are true, our number one priority is supposed to be the hostages. But that's not his number one priority at all and protecting Israel was not his number one priority. His number one priority is himself. He thinks he's gonna retain power the more violence and war there is. [00:12:03] That's who Netanyahu is and he doesn't give a damn about those sausages and, of course, neither does Hamas.